AgriCulture Live Podcast · Agricultural Recruitment Specialists

Rebekah 00:01

Good morning and welcome to AgriCulture Live. My name is Rebekah Shields. Now don't go anywhere. I don't want you to miss this episode. It's going to be a good one. We're diving deep into the theme of why disability shouldn't hold you back from a career in agriculture, which really is an essential topic for the future of the agricultural industry. If you've got any questions, comments, please put them in the chat and we'll get to them when we can. So over to you. Mike, would you like to introduce yourself?

Mike 00:33

Yes, good Morning Rebekah and good morning everybody. My name is Mike Duxbury. I'm the Chief Executive of Inclusive Farm Scotland at McRoberts and also the Managing Director of Inclusive Farm Bedfordshire.

Rebekah 00:48

Fantastic. So, Mike, for those that don't know, you were one of the UK's only blind farmers, so can you tell us about your disability and your story?

Mike 01:00

Sure, yeah, no problem. Well, many people who know me know the story. But I lost my sight at six years old, so I am totally blind. But I knew from a very young age my passion for animals and my passion for the farming industry was my burning ambition. To be a farmer was my burning ambition - to be a farmer. I know lots of people want to be footballers or rock stars or whatever it might be. I just wanted to be a farmer and I made sure that my drive from that age, although I knew I was different, I wanted to be the same as everybody else, if you like. So that's what I did.

01:48

I dedicated my young life to learning as much about agriculture. I went to agricultural college as the first blind person at Moreton Morrell and I've then, since that day, a long time ago, I've had a career in the animal feed industry as a qualified nutritionist. I've also worked on a stud farm looking after pigs. I've worked in the telecoms industry for a big chunk of my life, but I've also worked predominantly in agriculture, mainly with livestock. So that's a bit about my disability and me really.

Rebekah 02:33

So what was the drive behind wanting to go down the agricultural route, Mike?

Mike 02:42

That's a really good question. What drove me? I guess I came from originally from East Lancashire - very working class background, but I guess I wanted a lifestyle that I could enjoy, a lifestyle that I could really be part of. And I knew as a blind person that there was very little in the factories and that environment that really would fit. And also, I just couldn't see myself in an office or in a in a factory, um, and I've always had a passion for animals, so I guess it was the animals that drove me. And then, of course, when I first met my first lot of pigs at the age of eight, well, I was hooked, um, I was absolutely hooked on pigs and uh, and I'm still hooked on them today.

Rebekah 03:45

Are you from a farming family, Mike?

Mike 03:48

Yes, I am from a farming background.

03:51

Um, well, I grew up on a farm, um, uh, actually in Worcestershire. Um, I spent, uh, because I went to boarding school at Worcester and I was brought upon a farm there and I worked predominantly with cattle and sheep. But I knew I still love that, I love the outdoor life, I love the struggles of farming and you know it's tough life, but to me, the more it's hard to explain it's hard to explain. I suppose that toughness and that battle with nature, battle with the elements, seeing animals grow and develop, just really floated my boat, if you like.

Rebekah 04:39

I guess some people may have said to you well, you can't do farming because you're blind. You know, what challenges have you faced?

Mike 04:45

Well, my teachers, uh, all the people who should have supported me, never did. And it was the, you know, the, the most unexpected people, um, who were great, um. So, yes, I was told when I, when I sat down, we, funny enough, we were asked at seven years old, in the classroom an old school friend of mine recently reminded me of this, uh, and asked us what we'd like to be when we're older. And of course, you have the, the footballer, the, the rock star, the teacher, the, whatever. And they got around to a little old me and I said I just want to be a farmer. And, uh, the answer from the teacher was don't be silly, mike, blind people don't farm. And I think to me that was red rag to a bull.

05:38

Those who know me know how belligerent and stubborn I can be. I guess I also told my father when I came back from boarding school, where I was at a special school for all other blind people, and I stood there and told my dad. I said I don't wanna be like them, I just wanna be like everybody else out there and live a normal life. And I guess for a little boy of seven, eight, nine to say that had a quite a dramatic effect on my father. Um so yeah, no, and through life you always get, you always get the doubters. But seriously, seriously, Rebekah, I have never had, I've seen discrimination. I've faced discrimination, I've had the horrible comments, I've had the nastiness and unpleasantness, but do you know something? I've never had any of that in agriculture.

Rebekah 06:39

Well, that's brilliant, you know, but it should be like it everywhere, shouldn't it?

Mike 06:47

It should be, but but sadly it isn't. And we're in 2025 and still we have a major problem with disabled people being employed. Um, I'll just throw some very brief stats because this will shock your audience 90% of blind people in the uk are unemployed and 78% of autistic people are unemployed, and a recent BBC survey said the employment opportunities for disabled people hasn't changed in 65 years. So we're trying to change that and one of the reasons why I set up Inclusive Farm. I did a piece around sending out job applications with including the disability or excluding disability the ones where we didn't include disability in the application. We got around about a 60% success rate, which I don't know if that's normal, but you know that's what we got and from that, quite a few interview offers and so on. In the environment where we sent out the applications with disability put into the actual application, we sent out 251, I had to remind myself this morning of the facts. Actually, we sent out 251 job applications. Let me tell you what the results were. We had one reply.

Rebekah 08:42

Wow. So why do you think that it puts people off hiring someone with a disability?

Mike 08:52

I think the reasons are very simple - Lack of education. I don't mean education, as in these people are stupid. But if you go back to the 50s, the 60s and the 70s, there was a big, a lot of people, especially in my world. As a blind person, you know we were seen as telephonists in banks, we were seen as basket weavers, piano tuners, and you know, if you like stereotypes and stereotypes in this world really do stick sometimes, and I think employers especially. I think it's a fear, I think it's a lack of understanding that they think, oh, you know, they assume that a blind person is somebody bumbles around with a white stick or a guide dog and you know whatever. But it just simply isn't like that.

09:52

Technology is so good today. I mean, when I went to agricultural college, there was no books around agriculture. I just sit there in a lecture and then run back to my room and put it all on a pocket tape recorder, and that's how I got through college. Um, nowadays I've got iphones that talk to me, I've got technology that does everything, ai, you know all the stuff to say on it, but yet we're still not getting people to employment now.

Rebekah 10:21

Do you think the increased cost of doing it might put people off?

Mike 10:25

Where's the increased costs? That's the point. There is no increased costs. I mean, there is a government organisation called Access to Work, so any extra costs that businesses need is supported by the government. So there's no the support for businesses. I mean, when I joined Vodafone back in 1999, 98, you know, technology was only just starting to break through, yet I went from the call centre to global head of accessibility Wow, and that wouldn't have happened unless I was good at my job.

Rebekah 11:06

Absolutely not.

Mike 11:09

And I think what was the icing on the cake for me and I won't name the company because it's not fair, but it wasn't yours, you're all right I sat down with a senior person within a very large recruitment company and we were talking about opportunities. You know what was out there for people, you know, with my background and training, and his words to me was and I always remember this and it floored me. Now, bear in mind this was only in 20. No, it wasn't. Yes, it was 2019. “No, sorry, mike, we do not do jobs for people like you”.

Rebekah 11:53

I can't believe that.

Mike 11:55

This is true, absolutely true. My partner, who sat with me at the time because she was helping me take notes. We both sat there when we were absolutely flabbergasted, and this is probably one of the biggest recruitment companies in the country, so that's why we started Inclusive Farm.

Rebekah 12:22

So tell us about Inclusive Farm. What is it? What do you do? Where is it?

Mike 12:25

Okay. So Inclusive Farm the brand was started out of frustration from myself. Basically, I could not get a job. I tried I've still kept all these, I've tried 517 job applications. I've worked with people across agriculture but I couldn't get a job. So I decided one night at 2.15 in the morning and it's my partner's worst nightmare I woke up and I said I've got this idea and I still do it now and she tries to throttle me, no.

13:07

And I said why don't we sell everything we've got? Get a piece of land and I'll build us a farm and let's farm all the things that I love, as nobody else wants me, let's farm it. And she said, well, hang on, what is this farm going to look like? And I said, well, I was trying to. She said, Mike, I can't get my head around this. So I said, okay. So she went and got me some Lego and I built the farm in Lego and then we sold everything we had, as in our motorhome and I had a sports car at the time. We sold everything and we went and bought loads of timber. I built a barn, a three bay barn, put up all the fences, pens and we stocked it with pigs, calves, sheep, hens, everything. And there it was born.

14:06

I said, well, it's got to be inclusive because I know everybody will use it and can come here and use it. And we invited lots of organisations right across the board to come and give us their thoughts and feelings and comments. And everything was just positive, positive, positive, in fact, so much so that they all said we'd like to work, come and use the farm for our students. And I said to my partner well, what a great idea, let's invite, see if anybody wants to use it as a teaching establishment. And we tied up with Milton Keynes College and some other schools and before we know it, we're teaching 20 students a week. And the brand went from strength to strength. We've now got two farms in the UK. We are recognised in 25 countries worldwide.

Rebekah 14:57

That's incredible yeah well, if it doesn't come to you, Mike. You certainly go and get it, don't you! Make it happen, yeah?

Mike 15:10

In some ways, I'm glad that nobody wanted me because we wouldn't have Inclusive Farm. And you know the one thing I've seen from this as we grow and as we get, I get in touch with lots of people and work with lots of organisations. They actually do want to do it, the agriculture wants to embrace it. But they also don't want to make mistakes. They don't want to deny people.

Rebekah 15:41

Yeah. Do you think there's enough role models with disabilities in agriculture?

Mike 15:48

No, not at all.

Rebekah 15:51

So maybe that's where it starts. People like you.

Mike 15:55

Well, possibly, but you know, traditionally, as you may know yourself from the background, if people are injured in agriculture, they tend to disappear out of it. You know. But yet this you know, I mean I've met. I was at the spring show here in Scotland, in Aberdeenshire, yesterday and I went round loads of stands and met with lots of people and you know the hunger for wanting to do this, it absolutely floored me.

Rebekah 16:35

I mean, what mistakes do you think they're scared of making?

Mike 16:41

I think a lot of it is terminology, Rebekah, you know. I mean like one guy yesterday and we both laughed about it when he said it. He said oh, mike, come and have a look at this tractor. He said oh, bloody hell, you can't see it. I said no, but I can have a good feel, you know, and you know we laughed about it and he said and that is you know. He said but you don't mind that I said no, I said I think a lot of people, Rebekah, are frightened to ask the questions.

17:08

You know they meet me and they're blatantly asked, you know. So can you see it? And I'm not, you know what? Yeah, and I think he's absolutely right. I think we should be able to answer questions because, at the end of the day, I am blind, I've got nothing to hide, and if it helps other people overcome their fears of saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, you know, isn't it easier just to say no? You know, if you're a recruitment company I came to you for a job it's probably easier for you guys because of the efforts and the time needed to do things. I'm not saying you do it saying, but the easiest thing is to say no, sorry, at the moment, this moment, there's nothing, because people are for, are afraid of it for whatever reason.

Rebekah 18:05

So what are the benefits to employers of hiring someone with a disability? Tell us about your superpower, Mike.

Mike 18:07

Well, one thing you will get is loyalty. That's the first thing you will get somebody. One thing that, as a disabled person, the one thing we are really good at is problem solving. You know, every day of our life we're faced with a barrier which we have to overcome. So we're very good at problem solving. We're also very dedicated to what we do. You know, fortunately, because I've lost my sight I'm very good. My brain seems to be very good. So you know, I can. You know anything I learned in business. I can stand on the stand and regurgitate. When I used to be in the feed industry, I knew every single feed and its breakdown and the percentages of oil, fibre and proteins, and this is that you know, just off top my head. So we are very you know. We have a lot of skills that a lot of companies can benefit from and we've already shown that really has an impact on the bottom line.

Rebekah 19:20

And didn't you say that some of your other senses are heightened more than the average Joe?

Mike 19:25

Well they would, but my hearing would be better if I didn't play in a rock band um which I'm sure doesn't do me much good, because I don't wear earplugs. Um, yeah, no, they are. Uh, my hearing, my sense of touch, my sense of smell. I mean, I can go into onto a farm, um, and I can pick up many problems with animals purely by smell.

Rebekah 19:51

Wow, that's incredible.

Mike 19:53

You know, and, of course, when it comes to lambing, who better than to have, if you have a problem with you trying to lamb down a couple of tangled up twins, than me getting my hands in there? Who's got my eyes and my fingers? So good, tangled up twins than me get my hands in those got my eyes in my fingers so good.

Rebekah 20:13

So why is it important that you know companies make diversity and inclusion a real priority within their business?

Mike 20:23

Okay, it's very simple, a lot. We we're in a world at the moment, as you are fully aware and your listeners fully aware. Agriculture is under huge pressures from vast different directions. You know we've got what's going on with the government over inheritance and farm payments, and the environment and food security and food supplies, plus the battle with the elements, global prices, and I could go on. So that's on one hand. Number two is the new blood coming in. Agriculture has dropped considerably. We are desperate for new blood.

21:20

This morning I've checked the figures it's about 9.3 million people currently in the UK who are either not working or not looking for work. And a lot of those people, a big percentage, are people with disabilities who've been told all their lives they're no good for anything and therefore have stopped looking. And yet these are people with enormous, fantastic education, brilliant minds and brains on them, and yet nobody wants them. But also, more than anything, look at agriculture, what we're having to do at the moment. Many farms are having to diversify in practices. Many farms have to diversify in how the farms are run, the diversifying into the enterprises that they are running. Oh, and guess what? Diversifying into people is probably not a bad thing, neither yeah, absolutely.

Rebekah 22:26

So you know, what should agricultural employers do to support people with disabilities better, do you think?

Mike 22:35

Well work with organisations like ourselves, you know, I mean, one of the things that I found was the big key and it was never meant to be like this. But because I'm disabled myself, with a, with a background in farming, a lot of other disabled people can relate to me because I'm like them. If you look around you, many, many projects that are set up for disabled people are usually set up by very well-meaning able-bodied people but don't understand the day-to-day barriers that disabled people face. But by tackling it my way, I mean when you go to my, the people who've been to my farm down south and this new farm in Scotland is, yes, you'll walk around and you probably will never see the changes I've made. Because they're subtle changes because at the end of the day it's a working farm, you know, and working farms bring what working farms bring.

23:42

But there's subtleties, you know, and those subtleties are making sure that the gateways are wide enough to take all that's necessary. You know, not just you know a three foot gate into a pen, but make it four foot so somebody in a wheelchair can get in there. You know, I put matting on the front, on the floor in front of the pens, so that if you've got your arms full of buckets and bales of hay, you've got something to feel with your feet when you're getting close to the pens. You know each pen front is a different tactile layout. So if you are blind and the wind's blowing a hoolie which in Scotland it often does I just need to reach out, touch the fence and because I know the shape of that fence, I know exactly where I am it's amazing just them little subtle changes that make changes.

24:36

Yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, though, all's I'll say through because I'm blind, it doesn't mean I'm stupid. No, you know, it's just the eyes over. So and if you look at agriculture and I try and use agriculture rather than farming, because everybody again, when I say farming, that conjures up driving tractors, milking cows, chasing sheep around the field, and yes, of course I have my limitations when it comes to that. But back in the 80s, 90s, when I was going into farming, pigs were kept indoors.

25:12

Once I learned the shape and the outline of all the pig units, I was just the same as anybody else.

Rebekah 25:01

So, if you're a business today listening and you want to make changes to your diversity inclusion practice, get more people who have disabilities into your organization. Where do you start? What do you do you?

Mike 25:35

First thing is there's people like myself who are there to help with. The more we help people, the more we all work together. The better industry that I absolutely love and I've loved now for nearly 50 years and I still love it today. You know this is a special to me. So if anybody out there is thinking about getting involved with this, get in touch and I'm easily available on the website, on Facebook, on LinkedIn. Just get in touch and we'll help them. You know you don't. It doesn't cost vast sums of money to make your world more accessible. What it takes, excuse me, is commitment and I'm wanting to do it, believing it. You know, at the end of day, we're not trying to make farms fully accessible, because a working farm is a working farm, you know, and we've got to keep it like that because that's how us. But there are things you can do that are easy but are good for everybody, whether you've got a disability or not.

Rebekah 26:54

And you've said that there are organisations out there that will support and help, you know, with extra costs and things like that.

Mike 27:02

There's loads of support, but it's got. I mean, you know, know, I do a lot of work with, uh, Scottish government. I do a lot of work with big businesses. I'm always called in by some big agricultural companies who have learned that actually by retaining their staff and by supporting their staff, they've got a better workforce.

Rebekah 27:31

Absolutely, so Mike - We're coming to the end now. A question that I ask all of my guests is you know, what do you think is the biggest issue next for agriculture?

Mike 27:39

I think the one thing that we don't do enough of is work together. I think I think the one thing that we don't do enough of is work together. I think the one thing that the government's forced us to do is more and more of us realising that we have to work together. You know, if we have to build another million and a half homes in the UK, whatever happens, some of that is going to take up extremely rich agricultural land which, once used, will never be used again. So I think food production for me and collaboration between groups and farmers they're the two key things that worry me about the future. We've got to pull together and work as a team.

Rebekah 28:32

That's so interesting. Thanks, Mike. I mean what a role model you are for the industry and what a story. Thank you everyone for watching and listening and thank you so much, Mike, for joining me today. Keep following us. We have got some great new discussions coming up. Next Thursday, we're going to be talking about how do UK farmers go from value adding to wealth creating, and if you've got an interesting topic in agriculture that you would like to talk about, please get in contact with me via Agricultural Recruitment Specialists, which is www.agrirs.com And if you would like to hear more on new issues and topics within the agricultural and farming industry, you can follow us on various channels, including Spotify, YouTube, apple podcasts. Just look up agriCulture live. Thank you so much for joining us, Mike. Would you like to say goodbye from you?

Mike 29:31

Yes, thank you very much indeed, Rebekah, for your time and giving us a chance to talk about what we're trying to do, and good luck to all those farmers and farming people out there.

Rebekah 29:41

Thanks, Mike, goodbye everyone.